Joss Whedon Quits Twitter; James Gunn Responds

By May 5, 2015

On Friday, Avengers: Age of Ultron opened nationwide and fans were thrilled…but over the weekend, that enthusiasm turned into what I call “Mass Effect 3 Ending” levels of anger, insanity and hate towards writer/director Joss Whedon over Black Widow’s storyline. It got so bad that it hit the point that not only has Whedon left Twitter, Guardians of the Galaxy co-writer/director James Gunn has come forward to weigh in on the matter.

Gunn left an impassioned response to fans on Facebook that reads as follows:


Imagine being a guy, like Joss Whedon, who has committed his life to fandom and to creating the best characters he possibly can, characters he loves, and has spent two years of his life working on a movie, and then has to wake up to this shit on Twitter. Yes, I know – Age of Ultron has an “A” Cinemascore, and far and away most people loved it. But the angry contingent of fandom is getting more aggressive all the time, and it’s difficult to block out as a person in the public eye.

My plea to all of you – and this is nothing new – is that we all try to be a little kinder, on the Internet and elsewhere. And, honestly, that includes being kind to the people who are tweeting this nonsense. I don’t believe you can tweet about wanting to find a movie director and “curbstomp” him and be a happy person. That person’s statement might make you a little angry – that makes me angry too. But thank God the circumstances of my life and your life didn’t lead us to being the person that has the need to anonymously tweet that to someone on the Internet. And, as much as we may want to respond with vitriol to these tweets, I think that just creates more insanity.

As a young person I was very angry, and it’s something I have worked on, both personally and through years of therapy. And if I can say one truth about anger, it is that anger is almost never anger. Anger – especially aggressive and abusive anger – is a way to deal with feeling insecure, sad, hurt, vulnerable, powerless, fearful, or confused. Those feelings, for many of us, are a lot more difficult to deal with and acknowledge than anger. Anger makes us feel “right”. And powerful. But it also usually exacerbates whatever the underlying, more uncomfortable feeling is.

A couple months ago someone on Twitter wrote me that something one of my characters said in my movie hurt him. I’ve gotten hundreds of tweets from people angry about moments in my films over the years, and I just ignore them, or get angry in return. But that one tweet affected me profoundly. The last thing I want to do with my work is hurt someone, especially someone who already feels disenfranchised. That made me think about what I write and what I put in my films, and I will be more thoughtful about situations like it in the future. That is, one honest and vulnerable tweet affected more change in me than hundreds of angry ones.

So, again, it’s easy to be outraged by these tweets. But whatever these angry tweeters are in need of, I don’t think it’s more anger and more rage thrown back at them on Twitter. I actually think that’s what they’re seeking. But what they need is something different. Compassion, maybe? A kind request for boundaries? I don’t know. Maybe you guys have some ideas.

And by the way – Yes, I know there are real issues at play here. But, again, I don’t think the way to affect change is through rage. That is just going to increase whatever divide you’re experiencing in the first place. I believe that there are a handful of truly evil, awful human beings out there. But the majority of us on all sides of an issue think we’re doing the right thing and are doing the best we can. If we assume that of each other, it makes life a lot easier.

Love you all,

To be perfectly honest, I’m incredibly confused that Whedon is being labeled “sexist” and “misogynist,” for a number of reasons —  “Buffy The Vampire Slayer,” “Dollhouse,” and “Firefly,” to name a few. If you’re this angry over a storyline (that I can’t even discuss in detail because I REFUSE to spoil it for you like it was for ME) that you find yourself telling the director/actor/whomever to “kill themselves” or “tell me where you live so I can kill you,” you need serious therapy and medication.

For those of you who HAVE seen Age of Ultron, I’d love for you to weigh in on this, because – to be perfectly honest – I’m absolutely gobsmacked.

Cricket Lee
Star Wars fangirl. Named Best Kisser by Time Magazine. CEO/Host: Girl Gamer; host of Gecken: GeekNation; writer: Dread Central. You'll have a crush on me soon. Vote Quimby. Twitter: @crixlee
  • Thomas Leath

    Kinder and Internet aren’t two words I’m sure go together. It is what it is.

    • GeekNation

      A sad fact, Thomas Leath!

  • Andrew Peggs

    Go Cricket! I just think a lot of the people mad and causing issues are stupid.

    • GeekNation

      There’s certainly better ways to voice opinions.

  • Litter Box Bandit

    I never got to send him my threats for having TOO much hawkeye and BW

  • judoka13

    There is a lot of hate on the internet about Black Widow being domesticated in AoU. So I am going to address this.
    1. The comments about her being the only one not afraid of her dark past are erroneous. She mentioned several times in Avengers about how much red was in her ledger. The Loki scene could be seen as her lying about her remorse, however that is not my take. The most believable lie is one that contains truth. Nat knows this, it is easier to manipulate if you come across a genuine. I believe that she did have remorse for past actions and if you read the comics she does. Last year Nat, Clint, and Spider-Woman went to Russia to clear off some of her remorse by helping people she had wronged. It is not out of character to feel remorse.
    2. So what if she got upset about not having children? Lots of people have traumatic things happen to them that they learn to live with. They build armor around that event they accept it and they move on. You know what those people don’t have to live with? A super powered assailant that makes you relive that tragedy. Makes you witness the horror that you had repressed and built scabs over by ripping the scabs off and serving it to you raw and open. Pretty sure that would upset anyone. She’s human.
    3. Comments about her being fulfilled now that she’s found a man. GET OVER YOURSELF. There is nothing wrong with feminism. There is nothing wrong with romance. The two concepts are compatible. Feminists fall in love. This is not news. Strong females do not become weak by falling in love. Grow up.

    • GeekNation

      These are very good points.

    • Kris

      Hell yes and thank you. I found nothing wrong with Nat’s portrayal, then again, I have read the comics my whole life.

    • NastyNinja

      OMG, stop mansplaining. #killallmen

      • GeekNation

        Really? “Mansplaining?” “#killallmen?” Men are allowed a perspective, just like women are allowed to have a perspective of men. Your response is childish and irresponsible, which leads me to only one summation:

        You are either 1) a manchild trying to create problems; 2) just a little baby in general with zero skills to communicate; 3) a hostile individual exactly like the people Gunn refers to in his post; or 4) a complete sociopath looking to hurt people in general.

        Your response brings ZERO to the table for anyone to engage or discuss in any kind of positive way, so GO AWAY.

        • LovisMirac Doug

          @GeekNation:disqus Even agreeing with your logic, it still seems like your response was more anger. If you’re human, & you’re allowed anger, then so is NastyNinja. If NastyNinja’s anger doesn’t help, then yours doesn’t help either.

          • GeekNation

            #KillAllMen = I’m not going to try and reason. It doesn’t mean anger, it just means go away. Mr. Gunn can handle it however he wants and we’ll support that, but I’m not their parent and I’m not a therapist. If we see “kill” or “die” or anything that resembles a death threat then they need to go away. We will respect ALL who have an opinion and wants a place to express themselves, but there will be lines and they can be crossed. With that said, @lovismiracdoug:disqus, I respect your opinion and thanks for sharing.

          • Psyrus

            (He was being sarcastic.)

          • NastyNinja

            LOL! See, feminists are so insane, you can’t even tell if someone is joking or not.

          • Brian R. Keathley

            “Joking” emplies funny, which your post was not. You also post under “NastyNinja” and from a private account. You may blame ‘feminists’ all you want but your intentions are clear.

            You are just a perpetuator. Feminists are not your enemy, only the fanatical that represent a minority. Unfortunately, it is the minority from the other side, like you, that give them a voice.

          • FemTard5000

            Is the media part of that minority? Are journalists? Pretty sure they perpetuate myths like the wage gap, rape culture, and support debunked con artists like anita sarkeesian. For a “minority” they sure throw their weight around.

            P.S. Jokes don’t have to be funny to everyone. Take you, for example. You’re a joke and I’m not laughing.

          • GeekNation

            @FemTard5000:disqus You are most likely the same person as NastyNinja. I just wish I had that kind of spare time; I’d try and do something positive with it. Oh well.

          • FemTard5000

            Addressing my argument takes much less time than trying to dox me. Maybe give it a whirl before you let your hypocritical stripes show.

          • GeekNation

            No, it’s just not interesting to engage with someone who attacks right out of the gate… You can be better that and still get fulfillment. To prove I’m serious, I’m going to say that you’re most likely an intelligent person just looking to vent some aggression; and if you’re ever up to have an intelligent conversation without attacking, we’re here to chat. There, no one is backing down from a discussion… It’s not like it’s scary, or that someone is actually going to win.

          • FemTard5000

            Ok. Now that we are all calm and stuff….you can address what I said, instead of spending another paragraph speculating on my personality and tendencies.

          • GeekNation

            “Is the media part of that minority?” Yes, it can be, but you (we) must stop demonizing groups; If anything is ever going to get fixed, it must be handled on a case-by-case basis.

            “Are journalists?” Same answer as media. If a (as in a single journalist) makes a mistake or is caught sensationalizing a topic, then they should be called out for it. We didn’t cover this story for two days because there were too many people speculating; We only covered the story once James Gunn spoke out. That patience to cover a topic is not easy to have in this climate of click bait.

            “Pretty sure they perpetuate myths like the wage gap, rape culture, and support debunked con artists like anita sarkeesian.” If you are attempting to take an objective approach to solving an answer, you can’t inject your own personal opinions. But yes, you are probably right about the first part of the comment.

            “For a ‘minority’ they sure throw their weight around.” If you are referring to the reference I made to fanatics making up the minority, yes, they sure do, much like most minority fanatical groups, whether they represent religion or what not; That’s why they are called fanatics, because they extend their efforts past what society deems as the acceptable norm.

          • The Watcher

            Dude, stop. You’re making an ass of yourself.

        • NastyNinja

          OMG, why are you harassing me? Check your white male privilege and toxic masculinity plz, thanks, k?

          • GeekNation

            Ok, “Nathan Thalbert”.

        • Russell McKenzie

          Ignore that idiot. Obvious troll is obvious.

      • K. Williams

        I’m not a man and I wholeheartedly agree with every point made by judoka13. The scene about infertility I think was a very powerful scene, and was for every woman I went to the movie theater with. But then again, if you don’t know the pain of infertility, maybe you can’t identify with it. There is nothing more female than childbirth – it is one of the only female-exclusive things in the world. I LOVED that scene with Nat. I loved how she was strong, but that one thing left her emotional and vulnerable. I think what bothers me about the people who complain about sexism in films is that what they’re really complaining about are scenes in which the female protagonist is made vulnerable. Because she cried, or she had to ask for help, or God forbid, she fell in love. These are EVERY DAY occurrences for human beings, not just women. So why do we want our women in movies to be portrayed as emotionless badasses who can do everything by themselves? If you ask me, that makes for a pretty boring movie, male OR female protagonist interchangeable at this point.

        • NastyNinja

          Women characters have to be perfect! If they have flaws, it’s misogyny.

          • Howie P. Lovekraken

            If anyone hadn’t noticed, “NastyNinja” is ObviousTroll on behalf of the MRAs: “Men’s Rights Activists” or “Misogynistic Rape Apologists,” take your pick, they’re synonymous terms. #fuckGamerHate

          • K. Williams

            Maybe that’s true for some, but certainly not all. If it was, why are so many women so outraged at this whole issue in the first place? Those who were upset by it are actually the minority of viewers, but they’re certainly the most outspoken. But in all honesty, it doesn’t matter. You can love the movie, you can hate it – but that doesn’t give anyone the right to tell people to kill themselves. Suicide is a senseless tragedy, and those who attempt to perpetuate it over the internet, to people they don’t even know, are damaged people who need serious help.

  • Ceda31

    Maybe Joss Whedon should stop being a little whiny baby, “Oh
    boo hoo some geeks on twitter are saying mean things about me” Suck it up
    butter cup you got paid millions of dollars to make the Avenger movies so
    please save your pseudo indignation for people who are dumb enough to through
    you a pity party.

    • GeekNation

      It’s easy to say that millions of dollars and being able to make that level of a movie should be enough… But I can’t help to think that it can easily be overshadowed by the feeling that the whole world hates you. Anonymity allows for a much harsher tone, social media offers countless more critics and artists struggling with criticism is something that artists have had trouble enduring since long before shakespeare… Their art is what they live for. Then throw in the fact that this level of filmmaking is a 3-5 year endeavor. It has to be a tough thing to deal with. More importantly, who said he was whining? He didn’t want to hear all the negativity so he shutdown his Twitter.

      • Ceda31

        he wants to leave twitter fine, but let’s not turn him into some kind of martyr. Yes the man has made many great movies and TV
        shows and he was well compensated for them.
        He has millions of dollars, but now he has to have millions of people
        feeling sorry for him too? He could have
        stayed and tried to explain his reasoning behind the character development behind
        Black Widow, and the Prima Nocta joke.

        ( Of which I had no problem with
        either one)

        But instead he leaves thus helping embolden
        future endeavors of idiots on the internet who attack seemingly innocuous
        things in all forms of media/entertainment for the sake of political
        correctness and further homogenize or entertainment. I guess I expected more from him.

        by the way I am sure he has an army of security personnel so I doubt he was
        worried about a death threat posted on twitter.

        • GeekNation

          The focus of the article (if you read it) and most of the comments here are not “feeling sorry for him” or making him a martyr… We’re talking about DEATH THREATS! Furthermore, it’s not as much about Whedon’s safety, which is sad that this discussion even has to happen, it’s more about the idiots online that think it’s okay. I for one am not okay with it… Being okay with it just seems defeatist and lazy to me.

      • Kristopher Vincent

        I don’t blame him for shutting down his Twitter account, no matter what the reason. I barely use my own. And you’re so right about how all that success can be overshadowed by hate directed at you. Just ask George Lucas. He once said as much…something to the effect of why would he continue making those movies when everyone talks about what a horrible person he is.

    • lawdood

      And here’s someone who just doesn’t get it and never will. ^

      • GeekNation

        On this, my friend, we will have to agree.

    • Darren

      You’re right. Because he creates something he loves and gets paid well for it, he should just suck it up and welcome hundreds of death threats in a day.

      Sorry, but no.

      • GeekNation


    • Cricket Lee

      I’m curious to see how you’d react to getting a barrage of death threats against you and your family for something that YOU thought you did a good job on…

      • GeekNation


    • SisterChristian69

      In other words, you’re an uninformed idiot.

  • Charles Hodge

    “Imagine being a guy, like Joss Whedon, who has committed his life to fandom and to creating the best characters he possibly can, characters he loves, and has spent two years of his life working on a movie”
    if he was that committed then maybe he should of waited even longer to introduce Ultron the correct way (after the antman movie) since Pym was his creator. just sayin.

    • GeekNation

      You don’t actually think he gets to decide when to release his movies, do you?

    • Darren

      You understand movies don’t equal comics, right? That from the beginning, the MCU has deviated from the comics, right? I mean, we’re far enough into this whole deal that you should readily accept and understand the comic storylines aren’t going to necessarily be the movie storylines, and that it’s not the directors who are writing these over-arcing storylines.

    • David Johnson

      You haven’t watch Game of Thrones after having reading the books then.

    • Cricket Lee

      some of this also boils down to what the studio wants – directors don’t get carte blanche

    • SisterChristian69

      And you’re “just sayin” it like someone who hasn’t learned how to write beyond a fourth-grade level. Anyone with even a middle-school education knows that “should of” has no meaning whatsoever in English. Finish school, kid.

      • Kristopher Vincent

        Thank you. I get so tired of that ignorant, lazy “of” instead of “have” garbage. Right up there with a woman calling herself a “women.”

    • David Landon

      I have come to terms with the fact that the movies will never follow the comics 100%. EVER!!! Would I like them to do that? Yes, but it’s just not possible. My biggest problem with the MCU is that Mutants don’t exist but i understand the why’s of it.
      No matter how they write a character, whether I like what they do or don’t do, the movies are for entertainment.
      I was entertained by this movie !!!

    • Joel Lafleur

      You realize they aren’t even doing Hank Pym as Antman… right?

  • David Johnson

    Sad that behind the Fake Screen Names & Profile Pictures some people believe its acceptable to make threats that can get You arrested in real life. Getting angry enough to threaten Joss Whedon over 1 Female Character after the Years of Strong Women in many Leading Roles is just confusing! But James Gunn’s & Your Analysis hopefully (though I doubt it) are read by the Web Haters & maybe they seek the help they need.

    • GeekNation

      Thanks, David! Agreed.

    • Cricket Lee

      amen, brother

  • Saturn

    I don’t like his shitty writing. Easy. Plus, his writing on female characters sucks. Woman who can fight =/= strong 3 dimension women. His best writing stays at Buffy, and will always be ONLY Buffy. That’s that.

    • GeekNation

      Nothing wrong with having an opinion. Just try not to let it become a death threat. Haha

    • Darren

      I never felt like any of his character writing was super strong. To me, his characters have always been nearly interchangeable. There was little difference in the way the Buffy cast spoke or acted, other than Willow maybe droning on a bit more than the rest. The constant “overwhelming sarcasm in the face of danger” thing just became one-dimensional to me.

    • David Johnson

      So Dollhouse, Firefly, Aliens 4, Cabin in the Woods, Fray are all Misogynistic?

    • Cricket Lee


    • SisterChristian69

      In other words, you’re an idiot.

  • Liz K Clark

    Like Joss, hate Joss, like his interpretation of Black Widow, hate it? Doesn’t really matter in terms of treatment to another human – another artist. The internet, as we all know, creates a shield on anonymity. Heck, look at my profile pic. It’s a character, an illusion, a pseudonym… a lie. It’s not me. However, I’m able to separate the appropriate and inappropriate on a personal level, and although my avatar and pseudonym afford me some anonymity – I choose not to abuse it by still holding myself accountable for language, threats and respectable treatment. I have zero issue with people having a bone to pick w/ Joss over his (or Marvel’s) protrayal of Black Widow. Good God, the world is based on diversity and depth of opinion! I welcome it in all forms of my life! However, there is a line between having an intellectual conversation, and slandering or abusing for shock value. For former I welcome, as I would hope any artist/celeb/public figure would as well. The latter, I have no tolerence for. Why call Joss a piece of shit? Why not state you disagree w/ his choices? Why threaten his life? Why not pose an intellectual debate on the depth of the character? I feel there is a certain disservice being done here, as the debate should be about Black Widow – yet it’s become about Joss’ character. That’s where the discontent should be placed – and if it’s heard properly, Joss will feel the repercussions. Not just by quitting twitter.

    • David Johnson

      Because their argument with him has no basis or their just parroting someone they want to notice them. I’ve gotten into political discussions & just put down facts, just to have profanity or death wishes used as a rebuttal. Freedom of Speech is something I hold dear for all sides of an argument but it doesn’t cover Threats.

      • Cricket Lee

        I agree – threatening someone’s life because you didn’t like what they did is crazy

    • Cricket Lee


    • GeekNation

      Great summation… Agree with every bit.

  • Michael Hall

    This is utter nonsense. Joss has always had the best interests of the characters he writes at heart. This humble man has given us many memories and moments that lift us from our deepest pits of despair through those characters. To say he is anything less than a man trying to create those moments and memories for the pure love of those characters and his fans is dispicable. The people that say these awful things obvious miss that. They’re so full of misguided emotions masquerading as anger they completely overlook the finer details Joss tries to put into each character. Widow’s story was apt. She showed us what it means to be strong and vulnerable concurrently, like most of Joss’s female roles. It stayed in character for who she is, was, and will be. Stan Lee wouldn’t sign off on something like that unless it was right. I’ll stand by Joss. Probably forever. Because in my life, Joss saved my world. A lot.

    • Cricket Lee

      “Because in my life, Joss saved my world”

      You aren’t the first person that’s said told me Joss saved their lives; some of my close friends have said on my podcast (Gecken) that Buffy TVS prevented them from committing suicide and it’s these kind of stories that warm my heart.

      Thank you for sharing this with us! :)

  • buffyfan1

    I saw it on Sunday and absolutely loved it! It had me laughing and crying like only Joss can, it was so on point on so many levels, I was shocked to hear there was anything like this happening! And seriously, you’re (not you) calling Joss fking Whedon sexist?!? please go google Joss and educate yourself on him and how much he has fought for equality and what he’s done first hand for women on screen, for a minute before you dare utter that idea again! Wow. BTW I didn’t mind the Black Widow storyline (might have been unexpected for some but I enjoyed it.)

    • Cricket Lee


  • OverlordOfEvil

    I use the Twitter handle Overlordof_Evil, and, to my recollection, I have never threatened or harassed anyone on Twitter or anywhere in the cyber- or real- world.
    To do so is idiotic. Chances are you neither mean to nor will be afforded opportunity to follow through on such threats.
    And that’s a big part of the problem with this situation. People type before they think, and find comfort in the shadow of anonymity such a forum affords. And, in a majority of cases, have forgotten about what they stated by the following morning. All of this doesn’t excuse their actions though. Words can be as harmful as the physical acts they threaten. People complain that Twitter and other forums aren’t doing enough to prevent this sort of behavior, and maybe they’re not, but the fault lies squarely at the feet of the people who refuse to take control of themselves and act, speak and type in a respectful and respectable manner.
    These forums are a great place to express your opinion, and by all rights you should be allowed and entitled to do so. BUT when your opinion is ignorant hurtful hate-spewing filth, you do us all a disservice.
    And in this case have driven away from social media one of our great heroes, a man who has brought our childhood imaginations to life on the silver screen in a way most of us only ever dreamed we would see.

    As for the movie, it was excellent! Easily the equal of it’s predecessor in action, characterization and overall enjoyment. I have no common ground with the nay-sayers and critics. I don’t know what they were seeing, but it wasn’t the film I saw and enjoyed. My suspicions are they were looking, actively and hard, for something to complain about for whatever reason… attention, money, a bloated superiority complex. But none of that tainted my thorough enjoyment of the movie.

    • Cricket Lee


    • GeekNation

      Couldn’t agree more, OverlordOfEvil!

  • Kris

    This is absolutely sickening, Joss Whedon has spent his life paying tribute to not only the characters he loves and the fans, but also the strong female character. It makes me angry to think that such an awesome human being who pours his love into his work is treated in this manner. Yes they went personal with Nat’s storyline, however, she also had Scarlet Witch in her head, and when someone rips the scars off something that, horrible, it takes a while to re calibrate your head. And she is allowed to be in love, she is human, not a cyborg. Joss is not a misogynist, not by a long shot, if he were, there never would have been characters like Buffy, Faith, Amara, and Kaylee.
    I loved the movie. A lot. Just a little miffed about Quicksilver, but I also grew up reading Marvel comics.

  • Bill Agans

    There was nothin’ wrong w/ Natasha’s story at all. She was tryin’ to help banner the whole movie. He was really the weak one between the 2 of them.

  • TheWanderingJewels

    Saw The Film, Loved it. The whole pulling the tubs out of Nat to keep her ‘focused’ is a trope of various evil organizations that train assassin’s practically, so I had no problem with that. And Barton being married was from Ultimates, so no problem there. The SJW crowd has jumped the shark at this point. They need to go away

  • Graham Ferguson

    I do wonder what this faux outrage bandwagon is fueled by.

    Feminism or any other issue isn’t moved forward by people angrily and aggressively policing anything they feel falls short of the standards and issuing threats. It’s just modern day pitchforks and mobs and designed only to make those participating feel better about their own shortcomings.

    Black Widow is an equal with the rest of the Avengers. She isn’t sheltered or told she can’t take part in this or that operation because she is a girl. That is feminism is it not – equal opportunity and equal treatment?

    The rest is characterization, no more, no less.

    • GeekNation

      To be fair, this variety, the death threatening kind, don’t really qualify as feminists. They are fanatical extremists and sociopaths. Unfortunately, they give feminists a bad name.

      • Laurie Neufeld

        Thank you, Moderator. It’s hard, sometimes, to “admit” I’m a feminist, because the term has become so toxic and polluted by the whackjobs… :-) I enjoyed the heck out of the movie (gotosleepgotosleepgotosleepgotosleep), but I really don’t think Nat should be calling herself a “monster” because she can’t have children — even if she’s just trying to build a bridge with Bruce. The people who DID that to her are monsters, yes, but not Nat.

        • Kristopher Vincent

          I think having had her mind played with by Wanda probably is more responsible for her calling herself a monster…the way it forced up all those memories she probably kept tightly buried as much as possible. Not being a woman, I cannot pretend to truly understand how any of you think–but I wonder if having her mind messed with, remembering just how good she is at her work, makes the instinctive part of her wonder if she is that good because she’s “lost” her connection to continuing the human race. If you understand what I’m trying to say, I’m not sure I’m explaining it that well. I could see how that would turn into one of those inner demons that makes a person wonder if they are some sort of monster or not.

          • Laurie Neufeld

            You know, I never really even thought that Nat might still be having “Hex Hangover.” Good perspective, “for a guy.” LOL and said firmly tongue in cheek! Isn’t it nice when we can just talk? That said, I’m STILL never forgiving Joss for Tara and Wash… *flounce*

          • Kristopher Vincent

            Psh. True feminists don’t bother me. They are capable of discussing issues in a rational manner, which you had already demonstrated in earlier responses, so I was not worried. For some reason, Tara always annoyed me, even though I liked Willow. Wash…well I will continue to lay the blame for that squarely on the studio for screwing up Firefly in the first place.

  • SisterChristian69

    The people who have reacted so angrily toward Joss Whedon are a bunch of socially inept, cowardly freaks in serious need of medication.

  • Karen

    Natasha was THE strongest character. She had a traumatic past, overcame it, and was able to share it with someone she cared about in order to relate to them, connect to them on a deep, personal level. She makes herself vulnerable in that scene, puts herself out there, that takes enormous courage. She takes a risk with Bruce, and when it doesn’t pan out, she picks herself up and gets back to work. The strength of character she shows is awe-inspiring. What she has been through in her life COULD have made her a monster, but how she has handled it makes her a superhero.
    Also, not for nothing, but almost all her male counterparts have love interests….doesn’t seem to “weaken” them.

  • Jos Olsen Myers

    If we are going to accuse Joss of sexism based on BW’s storyline, we might as well call his treatment of Hulk sexist as well. The two characters have similar story arcs- the sterilization story mirrored Bruce’s “inability” to have children. It was the realization that they both were put through something that limited their options for the future.
    Also, we can’t criticize Nat for finding a relationship unless we criticize all of the others as well. It isn’t as if she is the only one who has been paired up: Cap was pining for Carter, Tony and Thor were bantering about their super awesome girlfriends, Hawkeye was married with kids as a big reveal to the movie audience and his marriage and love of kids played a pretty large role in the movie… it was he who ran after the lost boy at the end. If you think about it, Nat and Bruce are the last to pair off. If every other character hadn’t had some sort of romantic story line and hers was inserted, then we could talk.

  • Lance Udell

    Haters gonna hate.

    Well, till they find out that their “first world problems” don’t mean ANYTHING AT ALL to ANYONE BUT THEM.

  • Joss Whedon Fan Club

    Since my response, on behalf of the Joss Whedon Fan Club, is rather long for a comment, I hope it’s okay if I just post the link to it on Facebook. (It will be posted on the website soon, as well.) I, too, was baffled by the hostile response to the film. **My post contains SPOILERS**

    • GeekNation

      Sure, no problem.

  • TheOldPoet

    Why the heck does every character have to follow some PC straightjacket? It is like we have a New Hays Code where even though in real life certain people and behaviors exist they are going to be blasted if they exist in your movie/TV show.

  • Delilah Jones

    HEAVY SIGH. People who shout the loudest are typically trying to convince one person: themselves. Please, everyone, be kind. Be nice. IT’S A MOVIE. It’s entertainment. It’s meant to be fun and enjoyable. IT IS NOT LIFE OR DEATH. These are make believe stories. He did not royally fuck up the cure for cancer or the common cold, nor did he cause death or dismemberment to actual beings nor did he cause a rocket to fall out of the sky or anything of greater importance that entertaining people around the world. Please, lighten up. Be kind. Be respectful. He used his skills, talent and creativity to create something enjoyable, and which employed a great number of people, and will be seen by millions. If you don’t like what he did, you have the choice to not go see it. You have the right to your opinion, but you do not have the right to threaten someone’s life because you don’t like what he did when he told a make-believe story. And it’s even more cowardly when it’s done from the safety of the internet. Weak.

    • GeekNation

      No truer words were ever spoken.

  • James Boner

    I did a double take on the whole Whedon Twitter thing. I thought Whedon a Misogynist? Where, Bizarro world where everything is the exact opposite?

    • GeekNation

      Ha, exactly!

  • danakincaid

    Sigh… These are the same people that hated it when Starbuck was rebooted as a woman. These are the same people who are so angry about no one liking their stories that they fraked the Hugo awards. It’s some kind of a disease…

    • GeekNation


  • ReadWryt

    I find the saddest and most disdainful thing in this is that, all these people getting so worked up they say all these horrible things, ostensibly in the name of Feminism, are actually justifying many of the accusations thrown out by the Gamergate crowd…I didn’t think anything could make those guys seem like prophets, or justify their claims…but the vitriol directed at a man who consistently writes stories about amazingly empowered women, with strength from within and not granted by Men, goes a long way toward destroying the credibility of the targets of the GamerGate crowd…:(

    • GeekNation

      Exactly. It does no favors for all the feminists (and male feminists) spreading good, positive words.

  • Grady Elliott

    Anyone who thinks they can do better is welcome to go make their own bloody movie. Otherwise they can STFU.

  • James Buchanan

    Just watched the movie a couple hours ago. I thought she was great. Very human, very well presented. A woman with enough psychological baggage to sink a helicarrier manages to find a reason to want to go on, and build a personal connection worth fighting for. The killer ice queen has a heart after all.

    • GeekNation

      Strangely, that isn’t enough for some people… Maybe I should say ‘sadly’.

    • Cricket Lee

      my thing is she’s been trained her whole life to be detached from her feelings and be a honeypot when it’s vital for the job…we shouldn’t be upset if she decides to have feelings – I mean, even James Bond got married once.

  • Danny Adams

    As others have pointed out, Nat was not upset about not being able to have children. She was upset about having the choice of whether or not she could have children taken away from her.

  • Cpt_Justice

    Whedon’s already stated that he didn’t leave Twitter because of the far-fringe response to Black Widow’s characterization. But I would love to see James Gunn’s response to all the death threats feminist writers get oin Twitter.

    • GeekNation

      Not sure I understand your point, if there is one. I think Gunn’s post was for everyone. Yes, it started with Joss, and whether or not it’s the reason Joss left, which the Buzzfeed article clears up, the hostility still stands. By the way, Gunn didn’t say it was why he left Twitter either. I think Gunn’s post was about ALL anger and rage online… You can’t be so quick to discount one and accept another… Rage, anger and death threats are rage, anger and death threats… All being horrible and negative.

      • Cpt_Justice

        The problem is that people are really only speaking up NOW, now that we’ve been made to thin Whedon left Twitter over abuse. As opposed to all the other times that feminists have been abused a lot worse than Whedon. I mean, if this works to stop ALL the abuse, great – but people need to notice the pattern, & address THAT, too.

        • GeekNation

          Maybe. But I also think it’s a new thing (via internet, anyway). Not to mention, the feminist subject is a MUCH more trivial, convoluted subject as well… I think a lot of people are too nervous, or maybe too scared to take a side, not fully understanding it. I also think there’s a lot more females that would like to speak up, but unsure as to who may attack them, even those thought to be on their side. I see a lot of guys getting attacked when they are only trying to say the right thing to show support, or even trying to understand, only to get corrected with hostility.

          • Cpt_Justice

            Trivial? Right. Never mind.

    • Cricket Lee

      he actually HAS addressed gamergate quite a few times.

  • mrbongo

    Having seen the movie and completely loving it (yes, yes, we all know that the majority of the time sequels are never as good as the original) I can’t see what these fools are whining about. Whedon poured his heart and soul in to both movies and they rocked. Anyway… let’s face it…Marvel could have chosen Michael Bay or Uwe Boll to write and direct them… and that kinda puts this bitching about Joss in to perspective, huh trolls?

  • Pipercat

    Thank you for not spoiling!

    • Cricket Lee

      you are MOST welcome!

  • ltrasczak

    Attacking Joss Whedon for being sexist or misogynist is like attacking Winston Churchill for being pro-Nazi.

    Let’s face it, not everyone on the internet is rational or emotionally balanced, and lets face it, Also we have to admit that a large segment of the fans are people who’s social ties and social engagement provide them with large amounts of time to read comics, watch movies, and play on twitter. Mostly though, I think it is worth noting that every time you see the word “feminist” in the media it is always attached to a word such as “outraged”, “angry”, “Attack”, “protest”, “Offended’, etc.

    • Cricket Lee

      don’t forget “bitch,” love it when I’m called that.

      • ltrasczak

        The problem isn’t what people call you, the problem comes when people stop calling you a “perpetually angry, unpleasant bitch” in a pejorative sense, and instead use the term in a purely descriptive sense.

  • The Watcher

    I’m sorry but I don’t feel for Joss. This is what you get when you cater to the thin skinned and perpetually outraged. Then there is the added fact that while not making death threats, he has supported others in attacking other creators for not catering to other’s ideals.

    • GeekNation

      What?! Don’t feel sorry for Joss if you don’t want to, but death threats shouldn’t even be in the same sentence as what he has or has not dissed or supported… None of it should lead to death threats.

      • The Watcher

        What are death threats? Words, nothing more. Especially on the internet. I agree that death threats are in poor taste. I’ll go even farther and call anyone resorting to any sort of threats weak minded morons.

        But treating empty threats as significant is also the act of a fool.

        • Brian R. Keathley

          First off, threats of any kind are socially unacceptable and ILLEGAL… It is a criminal act. Amd while you may call them “empty threats”, history proves they are not always empty. Sometimes, allowing the misguided movement to perpetuate is what convinces some simple-minded evildoer to follow through with it. If you thinknit doesn’t hapelpen than do some research.

          • The Watcher

            “First off, threats of any kind are socially unacceptable and ILLEGAL…”
            No, credible threats are illegal. Threats with the intent and action to follow through are illegal. Otherwise most if not all the internet would be tracked down and thrown in jail. Which is HIGHLY impractical. And even then, it has in certain places and time illegal for women to own property or to house runaway slaves. So legality is hardly any measure of righteousness. Same with social acceptability.
            “Amd while you may call them “empty threats”, history proves they are not always empty.”
            History also proves that most threats are crimes of passion that the person doesn’t mean after they calm down. In fact, empty threats are MUCH more common than credible threats.

            Also, fun fact about history. Most if not all the “evil doers”, as you simplisticly put it. Thought they were the good guys. Or at least that their actions were justified. Something you need to ponder long and hard on.
            And while your at it, find out why freedom of speech is important.

          • GeekNation

            You are entitled to your opinion. For me, if your opinion is in support of death threats of any kind, which you seem to support (or at try to validate), then I am not going to engage and I hope no one else does either.

            However, I will leave you with this: Death threats are not supported by The First Amendment that protects freedom of speech.

          • The Watcher

            You know, it’s sad when otherwise intelligent people get dense…. I said nothing in support of death threats, quite the opposite. I just do not demonize to the level you do.
            It’s truly sad you cannot understand the distinction. Which is a problem.

          • GeekNation

            Genius, the entire discussion about Joss leaving was based on death threats. Either way, any kind of threats of physical harm are still illegal. If you segued into an entirely different discussion about some other kind of threats, that’s on you.

            You actually accused me of demonizing death threats. Hahaha, could be the funniest thing I’ve ever heard.

            And yes, you were validating [certain] threats (and most likely justifying them).

          • The Watcher

            Ok. And now you enter the realm of insults and you telling me what I am saying. We’re obviously done here as you’ve abandoned the ability for rational discourse.

            Good going, “good guy”. Feel better now? More righteous?

          • GeekNation


            You called me dense.

            You said that you “do not demonize” threats at my level.

            And your whole argument is trying to validate certain threats.

            What are you expecting here? If you’re looking for a civil discussion, then act civi.

          • The Watcher

            “You called me dense.”

            No, I said you were being dense. There’s a difference. Everybody can be dense at times. And yes, for some it appears to be a perminant state. I did not state it as being such for you. Also, you’re quick to forget that I said you were being dense after calling you intelligent. So, yea.

            “And your whole argument is trying to validate certain threats.”

            No, it isn’t. I won’t repeat what I’ve already said obvious in vain though. Reread my comments if you’re at all interested in what I actually said. Will point out I called such threat makers morons though.

            “What are you expecting here? If you’re looking for a civil discussion, then act civi.”

            I am. I am unsure if I can realistically expect it though. My opponent is letting their passion get the better of them it seems.

          • The Watcher

            “You called me dense.”

            No, I said you were being dense. There’s a difference. Everybody can be dense at times. And yes, for some it appears to be a perminant state. I did not state it as being such for you. Also, you’re quick to forget that I said you were being dense after calling you intelligent. So, yea.

            “And your whole argument is trying to validate certain threats.”

            No, it isn’t. I won’t repeat what I’ve already said obvious in vain though. Reread my comments if you’re at all interested in what I actually said. Will point out I called such threat makers morons though.

            “What are you expecting here? If you’re looking for a civil discussion, then act civi.”

            I am. I am unsure if I can realistically expect it though. My opponent is letting their passion get the better of them it seems.

          • The Watcher

            “You called me dense.”

            No, I said you were being dense. There’s a difference. Everybody can be dense at times. And yes, for some it appears to be a perminant state. I did not state it as being such for you. Also, you’re quick to forget that I said you were being dense after calling you intelligent. So, yea.

            “And your whole argument is trying to validate certain threats.”

            No, it isn’t. I won’t repeat what I’ve already said obvious in vain though. Reread my comments if you’re at all interested in what I actually said. Will point out I called such threat makers morons though.

            “What are you expecting here? If you’re looking for a civil discussion, then act civi.”

            I am. I am unsure if I can realistically expect it though. My opponent is letting their passion get the better of them it seems.

          • The Watcher

            Is my comment being deleted or is this my net acting stupid?

            “You called me dense.”

            No, I said you were being dense. There’s a difference. Everybody can be dense at times. And yes, for some it appears to be a perminant state. I did not state it as being such for you. Also, you’re quick to forget that I said you were being dense after calling you intelligent. So, yea.

            “And your whole argument is trying to validate certain threats.”

            No, it isn’t. I won’t repeat what I’ve already said obvious in vain though. Reread my comments if you’re at all interested in what I actually said. Will point out I called such threat makers morons though.

            “What are you expecting here? If you’re looking for a civil discussion, then act civi.”

            I am. I am unsure if I can realistically expect it though. My opponent is letting their passion get the better of them it seems.

          • The Watcher

            Deleting message I see. Real mature.

          • GeekNation

            If you’re referring to us (GeekNation) we don’t delete messages. What you see is what you get.

          • The Watcher

            I am. Considering I posted a response that keeps disappearing. Let’s test it!

            “You called me dense.”

            No I didn’t. I said you were being dense, something everyone can be at one point or another. Granted for some people it seems to be a perminant state. I did not state it as such for you. Also you apparently forget before I said you were being dense I called you intelligent.

            “You said that you “do not demonize” threats at my level.”

            Because I don’t? You on the other hand classify mere words as a crime. Others in history have done that. ;)

            “And your whole argument is trying to validate certain threats.”

            Selective memory? Go back and look. I specifically called threat makers morons.

            “What are you expecting here? If you’re looking for a civil discussion, then act civi.”

            I have been. You on the other hand appear not to be able to handle disagreement. Passion does that.

          • GeekNation

            Ok, well this makes the 5th time it’s been posted.

          • The Watcher

            And it’s not showing up, to me at least. Thus my comment.

          • The Watcher

            Well, you were. Not meant as an insult. Just a accurate descriptor for how you are acting. Which is something you can change. I highly doubt you will. But, it could happen. Theoretically.

          • GeekNation

            Calling someone dense is an insult, whether real or not, so don’t cry, “And now you enter the realm of insults” when someone retorts with their own.

            You call dense just because I disagree with you trying to decipher what a credible or not credible threat is? Was he supposed to just not worry about his safety or the safety of his family, hoping the threats were not “credible”. Nonsense! Just go away.

          • The Watcher

            LoL! Cry? Really? This coming from you? Just LoL! It’s not the funniest absurdity you just spewed to be sure. The general feels before reals gist is however.

            No. I call you dense because you’re not getting what I am saying to you. For reasons I’ve already stated and won’t be repeating. Which is by definition someone being dense. ;)

          • The Watcher

            Simple fact of the matter Ryan, words only ever have the power we give them.

  • Laurie Neufeld

    Funny how everybody steps up to defend Joss and comfort him (frankly, I will NEVER, EVER forgive him for Tara and Wash!), yet when the same level of hate was being poured out on a couple of women during “gamergate,” they were seen as complaining, making it up, blowing it out of proportion, and generally told to “suck it up and deal.”

    • Cricket Lee

      but remember that Joss also defended them and sent them his support, too. But I agree with you, effed up double standard is effed.

    • GeekNation

      I actually think there is a lot of good people out there that flock to the defense of anyone being bullied, or much worse, threatened. Unfortunately, there seems to be so many different sides now, that the average person just trying to lend support gets confused. Not to mention, the more aggressive ones are usually the loudest as well.

  • AdAstraGames

    There is a kernel of truth in the anti-SJW crowd’s position:

    No amount of appeasement will make someone who’s looking to be offended by your work happy. You can write stories about strong female characters – as happened in Ultron – and get called a misogynist heretic.

    There is no “standard” — you put in two women talking about nuclear physics or transnational foreign policy while returning fire over the hood of a tossed car, and “Oh, you’re only including that to pass the Bechdel test. They’re just men with female names.”

    You include a woman who has any kind of sexual or romantic relationship, and it’s diminishing her. Only a feminist can think that a woman having a sex life or a romantic relationship makes her a weaker character.

    I’m aware that art is owned by the viewer, and the emotional response of the viewer is an integral part of appreciating it. However, we’ve lost the point of “That didn’t work for me, eh, I’ll go do something else.” Because outrage is empowerment, and if you can tell Joss Whedon that you want to bash his skull into a curb because he’s a sexist asshole? You’re empowered. Or something.

    There are days when I think that social media are the alien equivalent of smallpox blankets…

    • GeekNation

      “There are days when I think that social media are the alien equivalent of smallpox blankets…”

      Hahaha, couldn’t agree more!

  • Russell McKenzie

    This is the result of anti social basement dwellers who can’t distinguish between reality and fantasy and have no qualms about doing something completely evil to a celebrity or someone else if it interferes with what THEY want something to be. These sort of people need either serious therapy or just locked away from the rest of us who actually CAN distinguish fantasy from reality and know damn well never to take anything to the extreme of threatening to kill someone over it.

  • Cloud Watcher

    Joss Whedon leaving Twitter has nothing to do with the movie

    See –

    And just to punctuate how off base some of the rumors were, he added,
    “I saw someone tweet it’s because Feminist Frequency pissed on Avengers 2,
    which for all I know they may have. But literally the second person to
    write me to ask if I was OK when I dropped out was [Feminist Frequency
    founder] Anita [Sarkeesian].”

    His real reason for leaving social media was a practical,
    career-focused one: “I just thought, wait a minute, if I’m going to
    start writing again, I have to go to the quiet place, and this is the
    least quiet place I’ve ever been in my life. It’s like taking the bar
    exam at Coachella.”

    Now that Whedon is done with Marvel, he has to start working on whatever comes next. And yes, writing is difficult when Twitter is beckoning you with constant, glittering distractions.

    • GeekNation

      Cloud Watcher, you’re late to the party. We all know this, and no one said that was why he left, not even Gunn. But the attacks and death threats still happened regardless and that is what the discussion is about.

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